UPDATE: This post is generating some great discussion in the comments section. After you read, please join in!
Let me make a bold claim: Adam Lambert is one of the most subversive and relevant contestants in the history of American Idol. An if he becomes a pop star, then he will be one of the most subversive and relevant parts music history.
Why is that? Well… read on!
Obviously, there are lots of non-subversive reasons to love Adam Lambert (which I do.) He’s got a great voice with an amazing range, and he knows how to control it. Plus, he knows how to work a stage and a camera.
Granted, for some people—most of them misguided—Adam Lambert is a toxic brew of black fingernail polish and shouty high notes. But no matter what we think of him, we’ve all got to acknowledge this: Of all the seemingly gay contestants in the show’s history, he is the first to be this sexual.
Think about it: Clay Aiken? Neuter. Jim Verraros? Neuter. Danny Noriega? Neuter-neut-neut-neut. On the show, all of them exuded a non-threatening, asexual glow.
Adam Lambert, on the other hand, has strutting, lusty confidence. Watch this video from his performance of “Satisfaction” (while you can):
He seems like a man who is comfortable with his own horniness.
For this show, that’s subversive, because Lambert isn’t trying to make himself palatable to the supposed tastes of middle America. He’s not turning his sexuality into a joke that uncomfortable straight people can laugh at until they feel their understanding of the world isn’t threatened anymore. Instead, he’s behaving like any other cocky male rock star. Ultimately, this could make him more polarizing than Clay or Danny because for some people, that confidence is threatening. It says he doesn’t need the majority’s approval to exist, and that can challenge the majority’s need to feel powerful.
And really, even if Lambert isn’t gay—he hasn’t officially come out—he still comes across as queer (meaning the opposite of heteronormative). The effect is the same. No matter who he is off camera, Adam Lambert is presenting a confidently un-straight persona to the world.
Now imagine that Adam Lambert makes it in the music industry. When was the last time this country embraced a male pop star with so much queer energy? Boy George? George Michael in the early 90s? It’s been a long time.
And sure, Jake Shears and Rufus Wainwright could fit the bill, but they don’t have a mass audience. I mean, can you imagine the Scissors Sisters having a top ten hit in this country? I can’t.
But if Adam Lambert wins Idol, he could have a chart-topper by June. And that would mix it up around here.
54 responses so far ↓
1 Attila // Feb 27, 2009 at 3:34 am
Clay never needed a gimmick, he has the jaw dropping talent. Clay was the nice guy, Adam is the bad boy. Each has appeal but in different ways.
2 Kingoftunes // Feb 27, 2009 at 6:53 am
I have to wonder if the absence of Nigel Lythgoe is what makes the difference. Idol has long shied away from acknowledging homosexuality (except in Ryan and Simon’s often insulting banter) and this season the contestants in general seem much more up front and “obvious”. Nigel has a history of making comments on his other show, SYTYCD, about how he always wants the guys to be more masculine etc. Methinks he doth protest too much…
By the way, I am one of those people who find Adam to be “shouty”. I also find him to be insincere – it seems to me that he has decided to combine David Cook’s manner of dramatically changing up songs into a rockier vibe and Constantine Maroulis’ hammy, come hither camera glances and stage presence. Perhaps he will grow on me – at least he can sing!!
3 Anonymous // Feb 27, 2009 at 10:01 am
…but kris allen (on balance) is hotter!!!!
4 Mark Blankenship // Feb 27, 2009 at 12:19 pm
@Attila — I agree about Clay’s appeal, and I actually really liked him on the show. But I still think he fits in that neuter category I described.
Of course, it’s not only gay (or gay-seeming) guys who fit there. Where would the boy band be without that non-threatening persona? Or Michael Buble?
5 Lisa // Feb 27, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Mark- I completely agree with you about Adam Lambert. I think he might be the “whole package” the judges keep talking about. He has the “look” and the attitude, and in my opinion, the voice to back it up. There is something special about him. I think (HOPE!!) he will do well.
6 Michael // Feb 27, 2009 at 12:47 pm
As a visitor from the planet of people-born-without-the-pop-music-chromosome (there are no tour shuttles to our planet, no one wants to visit), I wonder, logically, how you see potential subversion here. Do I understand you right–it’s subversive if somebody who projects queerness (I see it more in some other Lambert you-tube presentations than in this one, by the way) in a way that might be threatening, polarizing, uncomfortable (I’m trying to use your words) gets a chart-topping song? I mean–offending the squares and making them defensive makes for–subversion? Okay–but what’s being subverted? If you mean subversion of comfort levels, then it sounds to me as if that sort of success for Lambert would intensify the straight resistance to queer self-confidence. Logically, isn’t the less-aggressive approach of the “neuters” you describe more likely to make the straights rethink their defensiveness–recognizing common feelings, etc? But I think you mean another kind of subversion, one based on challenging dominance–and I do get the joy of pissing off conservatives and the need for assertion of that which is senselessly disdained–but it has the built-in risk of reifying the opposition,no? So maybe both tactics have their place?
I now return to my home planet where this stuff doesn’t register. (Honestly, the last time a friend gently compelled me to watch American Idol I ended the friendship. Some of us are immune.)
7 Brianna Bates // Feb 27, 2009 at 1:04 pm
adam is soooo not gay and he is sexy hes the only reason im watching the show this year!!! he hott! has an AMAZING voice!! hes awesome!!! hes all these things but not gay!!
8 Mark Blankenship // Feb 27, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Hey Michael,
First, welcome to our planet. Most of the vegetation is plastic, but otherwise, it’s a wonderful place. Won’t you join me for a Capri Sun?
For me, Adam Lambert subverts the notion that queer men only merit a highly visible role in mainstream culture if they seem nonthreatening or beholden to dominant straight culture. He subverts the assumption that any man who exists outside the hetero norm needs to behave gratefully or subserviently to the majority that allowed him to be seen.
“Queer Eye for the Straight Guy” is the ne plus ultra of this idea, since they were turning themselves into minstrels every week to amuse their straight clients.
And while you’re right that a less sexualized gay male can help defensive straight people rethink their fears, there is a danger in pushing that persona too far.
When I was growing up, there was a teacher at my mom’s school who invited his colleagues over to this home, and he made sure his partner wasn’t there. Later, I heard some of the other teachers praising him for being so “considerate” and “thoughtful” about sending his lover away. So… great. These women accepted he was gay, but at what cost? Is that kind of neutered entry into mainstream society really worth it?
Now, the presence of “neuter” performers isn’t necessarily pushing us to that extreme, but they need to be balanced by someone like Adam Lambert. By exuding an obvious sexual energy, he’s clearly not hiding himself in order to make his straight neighbors feel more comfortable. Real acceptance will only come when hesitant straight people are confronted with gay people who are actively gay… when the lover is in the kitchen making drinks, not hidden at the bar down the street.
And let me clarify this: While I think Adam Lambert could be seen as threatening, I don’t think he is actively making threats. He’s not from the “we’re here, we’re queer” school of hostile 80s activism.
There’s a place for that, but by avoiding it, Lambert is arguably doing something even more striking. As I said in the post, he’s suggesting that he’s confidence enough to exist without straight approval.
To me, that’s the truest kind of liberation. It says that anyone is welcome to know you, but only if they’re willing to know you as you really are.
9 InfoMofo // Feb 27, 2009 at 2:34 pm
link is dead
10 Mark Blankenship // Feb 27, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Thanks for the tip. I replaced it with another link. Hopefully, this one will last.
11 InfoMofo // Feb 27, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Ok after watching it, and I think it was entertaining, I kind of agree with Kingoftunes. It’s not the sexuality that is offputting, it’s the fact that I feel like he’s trying to be the emcee from Cabaret.
But I actually liked the shouty part more than the beginning cause he stopped doing the slinky lounge singer act and just sang in his style, which works well for him. Anyway, maybe I’ll actually start watching this season.
12 Michael // Feb 27, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Thanks for the discussion, Mark, and certainly I see your argument–especially as elaborated in the “comments,” where you focus more on the matter of unashamed, untroubled self-expression-with-sexuality-included than on causing gratuitous offense to the misguided. That you draw a line short of what you call confrontational hostility and making threats, and define this singer as self-expressive WITHOUT FEAR of possible offense realigns your original point for me. (I just have a history of getting itchy around the term ‘subversion’–and that does go back to claims made for lesbian performance in the 80s–so my apologies for possibly pissy over-reaction.)
There are a thousand tangential issues here, of course: what’s the difference in effect between an artist whose sexuality is interpretable versus one who is out (is Clay Aiken a more progressive figure once, for all his blandness, he’s open? Is Adam’s power there partly because he ISN’T out, which makes for an open question where there might otherwise be be categorical responses?)–and is it always a betrayal of one’s sexuality for a performer to come across as sexually low-key (as that can be authentic, too–it’s not always internalized homophobia or self-castration for the masses)?
The idea of gay self-assertion without waiting for mainstream approval (which turns out to be your central point) is interestingly tested on American Idol, though, isn’t it? I mean, he’s playing for mainstream approval by being there at all. So rate the differences, in these circumstances, between a gay singer who was always out and sought a mainstream audience, a queer-seeming singer who left it undefined and made the ambiguity a part of his allure (cf. Prince–the artist formerly known as interesting), a sexually inexpressive singer who later came out, and a secretly gay singer who remained closeted but still read as queer to many? How much of the progressive potential is in the mind of the audience member–and therefore a marker of each audience member’s assumptions rather than an inarguable statement that could change minds? At this point, you’re constructing his performances as affirmatively queer, without regard to any other dimensions of his self-presentation–but if Adam should decide to reveal himself in interviews as straight, how much of this queer performance value would be lost?
13 InfoMofo // Feb 27, 2009 at 5:26 pm
@Michael’s commentary above is an interesting and comprehensive retrospective on the American music scene, but keep in mind that we are still talking about American Idol here, the lowest common denominator in music.
We’re talking about a guy who wears too much eye makeup and nail polish; it’s not exactly Velvet Goldmine yet.
14 Destiny // Feb 27, 2009 at 5:54 pm
Mark, I understand where you’re coming from but I have to disagree with at least part of your bold claim.
“And if he becomes a pop star, then he will be one of the most subversive and relevant parts of music history.”
I fail to see what is subversive enough about Lambert to make him even a small part of music history, let alone a major one. I actually find Adam Lambert interesting to watch and I think that he is a talented singer, but his musical relevance is doubtful. I grew up in the 80s when artists like Adam Ant, David Bowie, and Prince pranced around in make-up and bright-colored blouses. In particular, Bowie and Prince were musical pioneers as well as forward-thinking fashion icons. I am aware that Lambert’s time in the spotlight has been brief but there is nothing to suggest subversiveness in his music. Musically, he is pretty tame, and even though he might be edgier than some past American Idol contestants, in the grand scope of music history I think his impact will be minimal.
I believe you are speaking more to his impact on popular culture and his relevance as a potential iconoclast of American sexual mores. In that vein, Lambert could be viewed as a harbinger announcing the arrival of a young generation of gay men who are unapologetic about their sexuality. I think that would be cool.
15 Destiny // Feb 27, 2009 at 6:03 pm
One more thing…
Mark, you wrote, ” I mean, can you imagine the Scissors Sisters having a top ten hit in this country? I can’t.”
Two years ago, actually one year ago I couldn’t imagine a black U.S. President. It’s still kind of impossible for me to believe. So you never know, maybe Jake Shears will shimmy his way to the top of the charts.
16 Ricky // Feb 27, 2009 at 7:20 pm
That guy makes me want to rip my eyes out and use them to plug my ears.
17 InfoMofo // Feb 27, 2009 at 7:34 pm
@Destiny: And the scissor sisters had like a top 100 hit. It’s not out of the realm of possibility.
18 Mark Blankenship // Feb 27, 2009 at 7:40 pm
@Destiny — Good point. I sometimes overstate my claim when I get excited.
If Lambert becomes a pop star by acting the way he acts now, he’ll indeed be the latest in a long string of queerish male performers. Still subversive of the norm, but perhaps only a groundshaker for “Idol” and the current pop moment, not for pop music at large.
And you correctly identify him as a possible harbinger, which helps me respond to Michael’s question about whether Lambert isn’t looking for approval by being on Idol in the first place.
He absolutely is, and I realize now that that is part of why I find him so interesting. He’s going on a show where mainstream approval is necessary for success, but he’s evoking a persona that is not typically embraced by the current mainstream. (Again, I emphasize the word “current.” We haven’t had a Boy George in a long time.)
So rolling into such a mainstream environment with his queerness all aglow—but not infantilized or neutered—does make him unique. He’s raising the possibility that America is ready for another mainstream-but-very-queer pop star.
As Destiny says, that doesn’t make him unique to all music, but it does make him unique to this juggernaut of a show and the current state of pop.
God willing, he is a harbinger of things to come, and that next season, it won’t seem noteworthy at all that someone like Lambert is on the radio.
But like InfoMofo points out, Lambert’s only performed once on the live show. Let’s take what we’re working through here and use to think about whatever he does or doesn’t do in the next few weeks.
19 Michael // Feb 27, 2009 at 9:17 pm
But IS he rolling into American Idol “with his queerness all aglow?” The you-tube selections of Lambert singing in other venues–the Zodiac Show, another with some undulating male dancers, or at Upright Cabaret or the Art 4 Life Benefit 2008–seem a whole lot more explicitly gay than anything he’s brought to American Idol yet. There’s an internet fan quiz where viewers guess at his sexuality, and it’s pretty much a 50/50 split. So how much of this is in the eye of the beholder? (And what is the power-to-disturb in a phenomenon so ambivalent that it, in effect, conforms to each viewer’s prior assumptions?)
20 Mark Blankenship // Feb 28, 2009 at 1:37 pm
I don’t know, Michael. Just because people aren’t exposed to enough queerness to pick up on its obvious signals doesn’t mean that Adam Lambert isn’t reading really queer. He may be tamping it down a for the show, but it’s still there.
The question of the “power-to-disturb phenomenon” will probably answer itself more fully in the weeks to come.
But right now—and I was trying to articulate this on the original post—I see the potential for that kind of disturbance to the force.
21 Glenda // Feb 28, 2009 at 1:45 pm
I recorded Idol episodes and have replayed Adam over and over. This kid has got it. He is so today. His future is bright, I believe. I can predict he will fill concert halls. His music will sell and download left and right. If this recession hadn’t kicked me square in the financial face, I’d be digging to invest in this kid.
Adam is a unique mix. Vocal talent few have. Allure. Experience, too–where he knows how to use his own talents. We are all sexual beings. Some people just exude their sexual prowess. Gay or straight–that’s the allure. (There is a video online where he states his preference, during a performance.) He is who he is. I observe him as being considerate, warm, polite and a caring type person, too–a nice bonus these days.
Yes, he will probably turn off people who just do not approve. But, times are changing. More acceptance. I kinda like the catch phrase, “whatever” –
I am an old 60 year old white female from New York. Plus, I am a straight married ol’ gal. I plan on treating mysef to a new CD player just as soon as his first CD comes out. I am anxious to follow this kid’s career. I see the 60′–the 70′s–the 80′s, etc in Adam. But, like I said, he is very current. If he doesn’t rise to the top of the pack, I will be surprised. I just love this kid!
22 Michael // Mar 1, 2009 at 11:30 pm
Mark: What I think the conversation is leading to is recognizing and welcoming the elephant in the room: you are responding as a gay man, and while I think it’s easy to overstate the subversive potential of this kind of coded performance in the face of entrenched positions on gay issues, I think what we CAN agree on is that Adam’s performances have the power to delight, encourage, and put a lift in the step of those who identify with the queerness they read in him–THAT, I think, is his unquestionable potential to influence (a part of) his audience, and in that encouragement, to make a positive difference. There I have no doubts. There we agree. And it DOES help that he’s got serious vocal chops and some range of styles at his command (merci, Glenda, for pointing this out).
23 Mark Blankenship // Mar 2, 2009 at 12:19 am
Awesome, Glenda! You make a good point that his general sexual prowess may be more appealing than any one person whom he’s attracted to.
Thanks for joining the discussion!
24 Glenda // Mar 2, 2009 at 10:45 am
I think the point was well made that the Idol contestants have been quite conventional, for the most part. I think Adam is kinda giving that a shake up. A little shock value. The show is in the 8th year–time for a kick in the ratings pants. I also think he is being advised to tone it down a bit. No guyliner when he performed both his renditions of “Satisfaction”. This might be wise advice if the goal is to get him into the top 3-4, at least. After that–the music moguls will grab him and he’s off to the races.
Oh–this sexuality in entertainment–this is nothing new. My folks were French immigrants. Settled in upstate NY. They married in 1930 and often went into Montreal to visit relatives that immigrated there–in the French speaking community. Vaudeville was big back then in the NY and Montreal area. The clips we see of Vaudeville acts on TV are the tame ones. LOL–it made off Broadway look like a day care center. So, having been brought up with more European standards, I guess I am more accepting of this. My gay cousins were never in a closet. It is cultural, for sure. The acceptance part. BUT! The sexuality part is just ol’ el-natural. None of us need a translator for that! The kid has got it. With his work in cabarets and in his tour of “Wicked”– gives him experience — combined with what is so innately natural for him–it can be a tad shocking to some. But, I would safely bet few look away. It’s a magnet.
Plus–combined with that vocal gift he has–it’s a helluva package. I would say there is only a handful of singers that can go the range he does and not go terribly flat or sharp. The vocal control this kid has is astounding. His music style will not be everyone’s cup of tea–no singer is. I do not like ballad singers–such as Frank Sinatra. Bores me out of my skull–but gawd–his stuff still sells. But, I think Adam will do well. Very well. I am anxious to watch him throughout the competition.
25 InfoMofo // Mar 2, 2009 at 3:53 pm
OK, that was fast. Pop blog dlisted has pictures of his tongue down some guy’s throat: http://dlisted.com/node/30932
and like… a metric fuckton of glitter.
26 i.m.dubious // Mar 2, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Just like Adam, you’re overdoing it a bit. Winking at the camera and slithering around stage is not subversive, it’s cliched staged sex. When he chooses to bump and grind with the boys in the audience, then I’ll be impressed with his open gay sexuality. Liberace was way more subversive than this dude. He’s a queen, but more importantly, he’s a theater queen bordering on drag queen, an enormously talented one, but one who ultimately, until he can learn to fake sincerity – or actually stop hiding behind all the strut and camp and be vulnerable – will not win. His act will soon wear thin, and Simon will call him on it. America will agree, and then it’s back to Broadway where he belongs.
27 Glenda // Mar 3, 2009 at 9:12 am
At least, InfoMofo, they got kissed first. More than I can say as a taxpayer about all these bailouts.
I can only imagine the righteous indignation forth coming. I recall all the fuss about some nudey pictures some past contestants had posed. I don’t know the particulars about any morals clauses in these Idol contracts, but if we demand puritanical prior life from our entertainers–we sure are gonna be bored.
28 kityglitr // Mar 3, 2009 at 8:04 pm
Danny Noriega did NOT come off as neuter. He was just really, really young. Adam is more mature, that’s all. Danny is pretty damn gay, and for a brief moment, when he was on AI, I was really proud there was one of my people up there!
29 Glenda // Mar 4, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Can somebody talk me down? This post is not about Adam Lambert–but in a way it may be. I just watched on my DVR last night’s Idol with Nathaniel. “I Would Do Anything For Love” was his song. Simon’s crack, “I bet you would.”
I am glad I am a fallen away Catholic otherwise I would need confession right about now for my string of curse words.
Simon is a man who is SO comfortable in his lifestyle. From the outside, it appears he has it all. To make a crack like that–in front of about 30 million viewers, about a kid–I repeat–a kid– that has not had an easy time of it–well–Nathaniel is a better person that I am–because I would probably stormed off the stage. I need a talking down here–cuz I am so pissed. And what about those ball-less co-judges for not taking him to task on this? Grr!
30 Mark Blankenship // Mar 4, 2009 at 1:35 pm
I agree with you, Glenda. Last night, my friends and I were basically counting down the seconds until Simon made some ridiculous, homophobic comment about Nathaniel, and then it took him about 5 seconds.
It was especially crappy of him because this kid has obviously had a lot of trauma in his life. I don’t know how much you’ve seen of this season, but we’ve already learned that his mother is in jail and that (based on how she comes across) his grandmother disapproves of him. So clearly, Nathaniel is circling some serious issues.
But in eight seasons, I don’t think Simon Cowell has ever missed an opportunity to say something like that. Too gay, too fat, too poorly dressed… he’s always going to go for it. I’d guess that’s why the other judges left it alone… they know it’s a useless fight.
31 Lynne // Mar 5, 2009 at 2:28 am
Glenda – I’m so glad I am not the only senior lady out there who enjoys watching Adam Lambert and hearing his amazing vocal skills. I thought he did a superb job with Satisfaction (and you and I were both around for the original, weren’t we?). Sorry Mick, Steven, Tommie Lee and all you other tall, skinny, big-lipped, sweaty, tattooed front men, but Adam slays each and every one of you in every possible way you could be bested – looks, build, personality, sex appeal, moves, and most certainly – VOCALS!
Adam certainly has that appealing ‘bad boy’ image going for him – you know, a ‘leave-you-weak-in-the-knees raw, masculine (sort-of) sensuality, but without all that annoying bad boy behavior in real life to back it up. He seems genuinely humble, courteous, friendly, spontaneous and easy-going. Kudos to mom and dad who must be wonderful, loving, supportive parents. I enjoyed watching their mutual hug after his out-of-this-world acceptance performance last week.
I will look forward to seeing where his career will take him…surely he’s destined to be a rock star. I also like Danny and Lil and little Alexis. This should be an exciting season and I so look forward to seeing all these talented young people shine and grow.
Glenda, I guess we’re sort of like charter members of ‘Adam’s Grammys’ – older, conservative, white, married church ladies. I certainly hope we’ll soon be joined by others. By the way, I’m just a couple years behind you in age. You mentioned you had fallen away from your Catholic faith and I wanted to tell you that after falling away from my childhood Christian faith for many decades, I made a decision to believe God and accept his salvation in Jesus Christ back in the late eighties…that’s a really shiny journey too
32 Glenda // Mar 5, 2009 at 9:42 am
ROFL–they replayed the clip last night–gas to the fire! I guess America loves a good bully. Last year the intellectually challenged got it–this year is the gay-bashing year.
I just did not grow up with this kind of thing. Bullying in school would have gotten you a good paff up side the head. Now the teachers partake in it–aren’t we coming a long way? sigh
Yes, Nathaniel is from Malone–which is just a short drive from where I live. We think of only urban areas being drug blighted. Meth is a big problem up here. Lots of crap coming off the reservations that are near Malone, too. Lots of poverty–no industry. Nathaniel has had not an easy time of it, I am sure. That is why I think Simon hit his low moment.
I wonder how Simon will handle Adam–we should do a pool. Which show–what kind of off colored comment?
Ya’ know guys–I posted I am an older gal. Life can work out with a good deal of humor. Years and years ago–my brother-in-law walked out on his wife and 2 young kids. It devestated them. He found himself a new woman with a 2 year old kid from a previous relationship. Now–for year and years and years–I heard my brother-in-law say, “I hate queers and niggers.” As you might guess, I totally broke off with them. I had enough of that. I told my husband his brother’s little step son was gay and that his brother was making a fool of himself. Of course, how would I know that–child so young? I grew up with a dozen gay cousins. Like–so what?!
Fast forward 40 years–the young man lives in Miami in a civil union with another nice young man–they own a successful furniture/redecorating business. His daughter, by his first marriage, is married to the most wonderful young man I ever met–he’s black.
Life sure can be fickle. That’s one good thing about growing older–I have history to observe now.
33 Mark Blankenship // Mar 5, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Welcome, Lynne! Thanks for joining the conversation!
And Glenda, thanks for the perspective. That’s so wonderful to hear about your brother’s kids. Does he speak to them now? Are they on good terms? Did you and your brother reconcile?
34 Glenda // Mar 5, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Hello, Lynn–I just noticed your post. Oh–I feel good–another ol’ gal (of wisdom) in here! LOL
That was my brother-in-law–hubby’s brother. No–I want not a thing to do with the jerk.
The gay step-son–limited contact with his step Dad. The son from the frist marriage–limited, too. The daughter that married the black fella–she comes up often to visit. I wished they’d moved next door to us–the 2 sweetest kids on earth.
I think the stepson having heard that crap for years–must have done damage. But–I never see him. I cannot imagine it would not hurt.
35 Lynne // Mar 6, 2009 at 11:39 pm
Thank you Mark, good to be here. I must confess I only stumbled onto your website while googling Adam Lambert threads late in the evening when I’m sure I should have been doing something else. But here I am and I’ve taken some moments to peek around your site. I was delighted to read your ‘leaving the scene of an accident so you could hurry to view the movie, American Beauty’ story. No one was hurt after all, and no damage to your vehicle – good call – well, at least for a college boy.
I have read all the comments on this page and can see that you and some of the others, especially Michael are very educated, articulate folks and you’re engaged in a complex discussion that at times goes a bit over my head. I find myself reading the comments two and three times to gain a better understanding of what is being said. My college degree? Uhm….pretty worthless in the real world and in thoughtful discussions like yours, and oh so very long ago…culture of the 60’s and 70’s…if that helps situate one of the bookmarks of my journey for you. However, I would like to stick around for awhile if you’ll have me. I want to listen…and understand better.
Hello again Glenda – glad to be another ol’ gal in here to keep you company – not so sure about the wisdom part, (it comes and goes) but plenty of gray hairs to back up the ‘ol’ gal part.
Now I need to peruse your site looking for commentary on the movie ‘Watchman’. I have never heard of it, but my 16-year-old son and his friends are seeing it tonight. I try to stay ahead of these things, but sometimes I’m just not fast enough.
36 Mark Blankenship // Mar 7, 2009 at 2:47 am
Hi Lynne,
What a wonderful comment! I guarantee you, you have already added wonderful things to our discussion. Like so many of the people around here, you’re thoughtful and well-spoken and (most importantly) engaged. To me, that’s the whole reason this site exists… to invite everyone who’s interested to take a seat at the table. We all care about the arts and popular culture (and life in general), so let’s think about them, discuss them, etc.!
I saw “Watchmen” this morning and will be posting my review on Monday. Who knows? Maybe it’ll give you some tidbits you can use to impress your son!
Can’t wait to see you around!
37 Glenda // Mar 7, 2009 at 9:44 am
You know fellow posters–I think we all may be short changing America’s gay acceptance with Adam on Idol. If ya’ really want to know how people will vote–check the odds makers. My favorite bookie site has him at 2:1 — while at the bottom is Michael at 5000:1. I was quite pleased to see those odds. It speaks volumes. In the past, they have been dead on.
Same here, Lynn–I found this site by Googling Adam. And believe me when I say that I am not a people Googler. I have never spent a dime on any kind of celebrity tabloids. Just not my thing. But there IS something about Adam. Mmm–I wonder how many Googles he got?! Nothing I found changed my opinion on the kid. I even sat through all those commercials with the show “Idol Chat”–just to see the short interview with Adam. This is new behavior for me. I don’t know if Lynn and I are enough to conclude that “older” people will vote for Adam–but I think we are a good slice of older middle America sampling. It will be an interesting Idol year.
This is off topic–but reading Lynn’s comment on Mark leaving the scene of an accident–cannot resist posting this. My son (38) borrowed my Jeep this past weekend to grocery shop. (He only has an open cargo area type truck.) He lives right on a small lake. It’s easier to drive across the ice than his driveway during the winter. But–he hit a thin patch and down it went. Heavy engine first. He had to wait for it to fill to open the doors and get out. It’s 15 degrees with a wind cutting across the lake that you can feel and hear. Hypothermia damage would set within 20 minutes. His cell phone went down, too. He walked home–about a mile on the road. His nosey hateful neighbor is a habitual cop caller. By the time my son changed and called the tow truck–the cops were there. Yup–ticket for leaving the scene. This really brings back my 60′s attitude against authority figures. BTW–my Jeep is totaled–sigh. Not a good day.
38 Lynne // Mar 7, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Amazing story Glenda! Let me be a Pollyanna here though and tell you it IS a good day. No, it’s a GREAT day for you. Your son survived a brush with death that even your bookie would admit the odds were heavily stacked against him! I know you know that too, I just couldn’t resist reminding you
Okay Glenda, your last post confirms it, it looks like you and I are officially part of a new breed of ‘way out there’ swinging senior ladies who are snuggling up to the amazing person we have discovered in Adam Lambert. When I watch the Idol show, I am always aware of his presence, I’m just drawn to him. Eee gads! Where is this coming from, Glenda? I just want to warn you girlfriend, due mostly to our advancing age, there is a certain ‘ewwww’ factor built into our new found boy crush, so be prepared for a lot of eye-rolling and tongue waggings from your family and friends. I am ti-vo-ing Idol programs and replaying Adam’s solos and also searching out the interviews and You Tube performances. I will tell you though that his friendly, winsome personality is the glue that holds my interest together. He is not dark, heady or distracting in any negative ways that would lessen my enjoyment of his talents and stage presence.
I’ve been hesitant to weigh in on the sexuality issues here, because that was not a factor in my first impressions of Adam. Only after researching on the internet and visiting websites like this one did his possible homosexual orientation and risque photographs surface for me. Mark has some very keen perceptions about what is happening here in the mainstream with Adam being in the top 12 of American Idol and here are some of those highlights:
“Adam Lambert, on the other hand, has strutting, lusty confidence.
He’s not turning his sexuality into a joke that uncomfortable straight people can laugh at until they feel their understanding of the world isn’t threatened anymore.
It says he doesn’t need the majority’s approval to exist.
He subverts the assumption that any man who exists outside the hetero norm needs to behave gratefully or subserviently to the majority that allowed him to be seen.
Lambert is arguably doing something even more striking. As I said in the post, he’s suggesting that he’s confident enough to exist without straight approval.
To me, that’s the truest kind of liberation. It says that anyone is welcome to know you, but only if they’re willing to know you as you really are.”
The confident existence of the homosexual population as described above in Mark’s commentary is the natural and desired outcome of decades of intense struggling to work through one of the greatest burdens ever carried by humanity, both individually and collectively. That intense struggle of what lies at the core of their very being is at stake and cannot be treated in any way that would ignore what I just said. Does that make sense?
Whew…that took a moment for me to work through.
I hear what you are saying Mark and I truly understand and appreciate where this needs to go to garner an approved and celebrated status in today’s post modern world. I’m not on board with that, but neither would I ever consider for even one moment joining the ranks of anyone who would hate, mock, criticize, belittle or otherwise demonstrate anything less than a sincere, God-given and intense desire to love, understand, embrace and befriend a very important, very searching and sincere segment of our society. Geez, that must be the record for the most adjectives in a single sentence! I hope I don’t come across as patronizing because I also have personal reasons for being committed to dealing sensitively and sensibly with these issues.
I’m not sure these comments are relevant to your discussion, so I understand if you don’t want to publish them. But thank you for hearing me, Mark. I’m enjoying your site and becoming a fan…whether you like it or not
39 Lynne // Mar 7, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Oops…it just occurred to me that I stopped listening and started yapping by posting those critical comments above. Please know that I mean no offense.
So, let me pose this question:
Is it possible to support and laud Adam’s musical journey and efforts on American Idol, without also joining the ranks who would celebrate his possible homosexual orientation and would hope to see it highlighted or promoted in some way by his inclusion on AI?
I guess the bigger question here might be: am I welcome to know him (or anyone for that matter), as he really is, but without a sense of all-embracing joy about his sexual orientation…just as I would welcome him to know me as I really am?
Elton John is one of the finest musicians in modern times and I’ve always enjoyed his music. His ‘Love Songs’ CD sits right by my computer and it, along with a few ounces of white z, have often provided a marvelous relaxing way to unwind after a grueling day in the hood. ‘Can you feel the love tonight?’ Ah, so sweet.
40 Lynne // Mar 7, 2009 at 10:30 pm
one more itsy bitsy postscript here:
Thank you for that erotically suggestive phrase, Mark, “strutting, lusty confidence”. That is one I will file mentally and certainly pull out next Tuesday when Adam takes the AI stage once again.
On the other hand, I will be copying and pasting “sparkly dude-on-dude action” into my recycle bin
Warmest regards Mark! I can’t wait to hear what you have to say about ‘Watchman’. I researched enough to know that my son and his friends were gawking at dangling, blue weeners on the big screen.
Toto, I don’t think we’re in Kansas anymore.
41 Glenda // Mar 8, 2009 at 9:21 am
Lynn,
In my opinion, if Adam tries to appeal to an audience using only his gay side, it would grossly diminish his potential career. And, it would not just be due to the religious right nor homophobia.
Example at hand–kd lang — years and years ago we went to her concert in Burlington VT. It was just totally awesome. Both my hubby and I left feeling we got far more than we paid for. Her transcendental style–her voice–one helluva show. The place was packed to the rafters. She, at that time, was at the top of her game–all over the charts–sell out tours.
Then kd “came out” — like nobody knew before? She started to write her music totally to the gay community. Her music sales slumped–empty seats at concerts, etc. It wasn’t that people rejected her due to her sexual life–she UN-included straights. For gawd’s sake–all her fans “knew”–before she came out–but she became exclusive to the gay community.
The concert we went to–she made a couple of quick joke type references–funny and cute. It was enough. But, my sister went to a concert several years later in Daytona and the audience was totally the gay community. She said it was nothing but a lesbian peep show–it was awful. She couldn’t wait to get out of there. My sister is very liberal–but she felt UN-included.
Many of the shows Adam has done before has appealed only to the gay community–that was the point of them. It will be his decision–but I think he would be best to leave that to his past–and be more inclusive to a general audience–jmho.
42 Lynne // Mar 8, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Glenda,
Maybe by his decision to join the AI contest, Adam is doing just what you are suggesting and attempting to appeal to that wider audience. I googled an interview where Adam states it very succinctly: (Adam’s response to Howard Cohen/Miami Herald) “I think that it’s important to maintain a balance between your own integrity and what you want to do, and then what the audience wants, and what the judges want to hear. So kind of mix that all together and come up with something.”
There is the implication, however, in that statement, that Adam is compromising out of necessity and really prefers a different artistic expression. So that doesn’t negate the possibility that once the AI season is over, he might move toward the ‘k.d. lang’ experience you referenced. But we can hope that he’ll take the Elton John route instead
Here’s the link to that interview: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/idol_watch/2009/03/adam-lambert-interview.html
As you can surmise, I am now googling ‘Adam Lambert Interview’ in an effort to find the interview Michelle references in the other Adam Lambert thread on this site.
Aren’t there some dishes I gotta do, or rooms to vacuum somewhere in this house?
Gotta run…thanks for your thoughtful response and I’m grateful you separated the ‘religious right’ from the ‘homophobes’. Not that I would exactly relish being associated with either of those groups, but the former is probably more descriptive of my orientation. The word ‘homophobia’ has been criticized as a “derogative word against those with differing value positions”, and I would prefer describing myself as someone with a different value position.
I’m immensely enjoying our discussion, thank you for including me, Glenda.
43 Mark Blankenship // Mar 8, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Hello Lynne and Glenda,
Thanks for keeping a great discussion going!
Lynne, to answer your question about liking Adam’s music without supporting his sexuality… why not? I can only speak from my own perspective here, but no one has to agree with my sexuality, so long as they don’t do anything to deny my rights.
But I’m not quite on board with the argument about whether Adam Lambert should take the Elton John route or the k.d. lang route.
First, we’re talking about being “openly gay/Elton John” versus being “aggressively gay/k.d. lang,” right?
I disagree with those two artists being the standard-bearers of either side, since I saw k.d. lang last year at Radio City Music Hall—packed house, “mixed” audience of gay and straight fans, few references to her own sexuality. And Elton John stars in a documentary called “Tantrums and Tiaras,” so… you know… pretty gay.
But I think my confusion on the labeling of those artists speaks to my general hesitancy about defining what’s “too gay” for straight audiences and what’s “just gay enough.” Who gets to make those standards, you know? Who gets to draw the line?
Like, if Adam Lambert wins American Idol, is he allowed to kiss his boyfriend on camera, the way previous straight winners have kissed their partners? Would that be considered too much? To me, that would be fine. I know that if I won a televised award, I would certainly kiss *my* boyfriend before I accepted it. In fact, if I didn’t, I would be ashamed of myself for denying my relationship in an arena where the cultural norm is to celebrate it.
For my personal tastes, it’s a question less of sexuality than of general decorum. I don’t like to see anyone be flagrant in public, no matter whom they’re kissing. (It’s the reason I don’t watch shows like “Rock of Love.”) But there are plenty of people who disagree with me there, so I’m not ready to say my personal standard should become a general one.
So what do we do about levels of gayness? Personally, I can’t worry that I’m upsetting people just by being myself, but I don’t want to alienate others if I can help it.
As I write that, I realize that in my own life, I’ve become pretty good at gauging the comfort level of a situation… of knowing how much to “turn it down.” I’m never in the closet, but I can usually sense someone else’s comfort level. (People do this in all kinds of situations, though. Sometimes, we all have to “turn something down” when we’re around people who are different from us.)
So Adam Lambert may have to “turn it down” a bit in his career, but I just hope he never turns it all the way off. I hope he finds that balance between k.d. lang and Elton John, so that he never has to feel like he’s in hiding while he’s entertaining as many people as possible.
44 Lynne // Mar 8, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Yeah, Elton John – pretty gay. Doh…what was I thinking? I guess I just remember him coming on the scene in the early 70′s, wearing outrageous costumes, but far from our understanding of what was and is a “drag Queen”. It seems to me that we (at least the bulk of the nation), didn’t know right away about his orientation. I might be wrong, but that’s how I remember it. Heck, maybe he didn’t even know! So now, when Elton John is on stage his costumry is just ingrained and his appeal to mixed audiences, which was always his history, continues for the most part.
I guess what I and perhaps Glenda are commenting on is that if Adam were to take an extremely campy, drag queen approach to present what could be an incredible musical legacy, then chances are, that legacy would remain largely unappreciated by mainstream America. At least at this point in history.
As far as the expressions of affection in public, I’m with you Mark, I don’t like to see flagrant public sexuality and my ‘ew’ bucket is pretty huge – just about everything outside moderate boy on girl embracing and kissing falls into it. (I’ve seen some pretty weird things, i.e., one undercover investigative TV report showed a man sodomizing a donkey piñata. Agh, just when I think I’ve deleted that image forever, it pops up again, like now). Unlike you however, I am ready to say that I would rather the public airways do reflect my personal standards rather than those who would like to view the all-out sexfests we’re exposed to in the 21st century. Ah well, the pitfalls of living in a democracy (constitutional republic, I know). Majority seems to rule and the media is king.
But I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else….except maybe heaven
… not in too much of a hurry to get there though.
All that aside, it would appear that the nation will see more of the public displays you refer to the closer the homosexual population comes to an ‘accepted and celebrated’ status in our society (Brittany/Madonna). So, *you* have that to look forward to and I …not so much
45 Lynne // Mar 8, 2009 at 3:56 pm
….but that day, if I live to see it and if it is indeed forthcoming, will not ‘upset’ me or make me ‘uncomfortable’. I’m confident enough in my own orientation(s) to co-exist happily with others of different value positions as long as there is no destruction or denial of my rights.
46 Mark Blankenship // Mar 9, 2009 at 1:14 am
I agree with that last statement wholeheartedly, Lynne. Like you, I’m confident enough in my own life to co-exist happily with others who are different, so long as no one destroys or denies my rights.
I feel like if we could all agree with that premise, a lot of things that seem hard would get easy.
Perhaps Adam Lambert will show us the way! Onward, young singer!
47 Lynne // Mar 10, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Oh my gawsh…Mark, your harbinger has arrived. You need to see Adam’s ‘Black & White’ solo in tonight’s American Idol! WOW! It’s out of the box…amazing. What a kid, what a talent. The double meaning of the lyrics abounding and unashamedly and aggressively presented. I have absolutely no critisizm to offer whatsoever, except to say it was mind-blowing and explosiviely entertaining. I enjoyed it immensely.
Mark – it was a thrilling performance. Please do yourself a favor and watch it!
48 Lynne // Mar 10, 2009 at 9:54 pm
I came upstairs to my computer to clue you in just in case you weren’t watching it. I haven’t even finished watching the show. At this point I also love Lil, Danny, and my other favs are up next – Alexis and Matt.
Gotta fly
49 Glenda // Mar 11, 2009 at 9:22 am
I do hope Adam really, really likes what he is doing. He is at the point of no return now. We will all get 10 weeks of free music from Adam–but after that–he will SELL–SELL–SELL! In my opinion, he will be the biggest prize in the history of Idol. He is awesome. I agree with Paula in that it’s a mystery somebody hadn’t snagged him up by now. I am sure there are some that turned him away and they are on ebay right now looking for a kicking machine.
50 nic // Mar 12, 2009 at 3:47 am
comments and arguments about adam lambert whether good or bad only prove that he is the guy to watch on till the finals…. and bet you he will make it because of his enormous vocals and
stage mastery. for him to make it to the top all he needs to do is incorporate his song choices with a blend of the old and new hits spiced up with a new arrangement. his sexual orientation is immaterial for as long as we get to hear how good he really is…..from the philippines we wish him all the luck.
51 Glenda // Mar 12, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Yup, I agree totally, nic. It seems that’s what he is best at–this making an arrangment his own–he stated that in Hollywood week. He really is the whole package, I think. He owns the stage. Commands his crowd.
I love my DVR! I get to re-play my favs. I like Danny lots, too–but, Adam –I think his stardom is on the rise!
After watching the results show last night–I really think those 2 have it over Kanye West. Both fellas are just great–but Adam is getting my vote. Keep voting from the Philippines!!
52 Ruth McPherson // Apr 9, 2009 at 9:13 pm
He has great talent! But I don’t think the chemistry will be there for screaming preteen girls. I mean they got there drives too. But still what talent…
53 cyndi // Apr 29, 2009 at 10:27 pm
I am a straight heterosexual (who cares) forty-something year old artist. Whenever I see a gigantic talent like Adam has I automatically know that his stepping up to who he is, comfortably, and performing with such professionalism (no need to mention the gift of voice that one can only come from the womb with) came with intense work, study, passion, etc. He has been performing publicly for a long time and I can assure you that he has been selected and rejected a thousand times. He has been adored and criticized. Yet, Adam is standing true to himself and sharing his amazing ability to perform and sing with all of us. I am impressed and very grateful to enjoy his music.
I could care less if he is gay, straight, whatever. He is Adam Lambert.. the guy with an amazing voice and an incredible performance.
54 rendrag // May 9, 2009 at 6:08 pm
There sure is a lot of commentary on this subject, obviously people have strong opinions about it. And that is what I find so bizarre. WHY oh WHY do we still care about this subject. I don’t give a rat’s ass what someone’s sexual preference is unless I’m about to get in their bed (or back seat!!)
Does anyone remember Tim Curry in Rocky Horror Picture Show? Dangerous sexuality indeed. And yet here we are some 30 years later acting like it’s all something new. Oh, and remember the Greeks? Yeah, homosexuality has been around for a while. What is the BFD people???
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